GMC In meltdown

Something is wrong at the GMC.

In recent weeks there have been registration problems, reports of the first post in topics disappearing and now edits mysteriously undoing themselves

And whilst compiling these links I go the oh-so-amazing “Sorry, the server is currently too busy to handle your request. Please try again in five or ten minutes. Thanks for your patience.” message. Come on YoYo, pull your finger out – get the GMC fixed.

Update: Since this post was made YoYoGames have announced via their blog that they finally intend to update the forum software.

What do you think?

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  1. Yeah I would agree, however if its taken that GM is aimed at younger users, the adverts will be aswell…Young people dont have the same access to funds as adults…Would that provide much revenue?

    I am no Bill Gates…if I was I would own a software house instead of working for one…however as a sort of final thought, heres the changes I would make to Yoyo and GM…

    1. Get rid of the GameMaker name…call it something that doesnt infer a childs tool…afterall Ive seen file utilities made with GM (and some pretty decent little apps) so there is obviously more to GM than just games.

    2. Merge the yoyo forums and the GMC together, the site is disjointed…

    3. Have two yoyo games site to post work, one for the more mature and experienced and one for the new users…too often Ive seen really great pieces of work lost in a plethora of modified examples and endless duplicates of the same simple game…

    4. Concentrate on improving the PC version, thats where the majority of users will come from and thats where the money will be made (and forget about other systems until at least the brand name is established)…

    Just some ideas, means nothing I know, but speaking as someone who doesnt touch high level languages this is how I see GM and the issues it has….and just to give you an example, Ive been programming in some shape or form for 20 years…I have worked in the industry for many years and the only reason I heard of GM was because a yoyo user came onto a forum he should never have found and started talking some jibberish about GM..that led me to trace him to yoyo and thats how I heard about it..

    Thats not very good brand recognition is it?

  2. By my calculations that makes 1m and all 100,000 users (alleged) will have register….so how are they going to cover costs? They also have to pay programmers, helpline staff, website maintanence, and all relevant taxes for operating in the UK.

    Advertising on could proove lucrative, especailly when they introduce in-game advertising.

  3. Thanks for responding back. I was hoping this debate wasnt finished as it highlights some really good points…

    If I may Ill qoute you “First, GM is especially for youngsters, not professionists….” – I totally agree. However in previous post Ive expressed concern that “youngsters” do not have access to funds like older people…if yoyo is making big investments in GM shouldnt they be changing the brand and marketing towards older aswell….reading many peoples comments about the £10 reg fee, it is alot of money for a young person, and not enough for yoyo to make back its investment…youngsters cannot afford high registration costs, and yoyo will presumably need them to make a good return on its investment…

    The point about the emulators that I made was to highlight that game players would rather play those than a GM fan game as the original is always better, GM is limited and its very rare to find a completed game on yoyo…Obviously you cant start developing games for the SNES (well you can but you will need to learn assembly and that wont involve GM)

    You said “You ask what could GM offer better?” – when I said that I meant that how could the GAMES that GM produce appeal to a GAMEPLAYER (not a GM user) when they have already been done 1000 times before and better..I was trying to say that GM produces software that for the most part appears at least 5 years old (and thats being kind) when you already have established software houses releasing their old games for free and of better quality how could a GM game be of interest to a gamesplayer..?

    Ill just do quick maths: Yoyo say 5m investment is to be made.

    Lets be kind and say that all 100,000 pay a registration fee of £10 (which is alot of money for the audience its aimed at)

    By my calculations that makes 1m and all 100,000 users (alleged) will have register….so how are they going to cover costs? They also have to pay programmers, helpline staff, website maintanence, and all relevant taxes for operating in the UK.

    Now the only option I see open to them would be to increase the registration cost…but as you say GM is aimed at the younger market so how are they expected to pay?

    I would also argue your point about not being able to improve GM, speaking as someone who has only really glanced at GML I would say that there are plenty of people on the yoyo forums with suggestions that would disagree…

    and a few more little points to disagree on with you 😉

    1. You say the site has small problems? – Why havent they sorted out the issue of multiple accounts…? I could create 50 sequential accounts at the moment and its a very simple process to block an IP from creating more than one account…

    2. As the site is, as you say aimed at young people, is it too difficult to have a filter for obsene language? again a simple piece of work which has never been done…

    3. Why, if the site is aimed at young people, do they give the facility to embed pictures within posts? again a simple problem and a simple solution…

    This is why the yoyo site is wrong on so many levels IMO, these little tasks above would prevent as much abuse on the site and prevent children from being exposed to unsuitable material…Yoyo seem more interested in getting GM ready for the MAC than they do in the site and I will go on record with this…the MAC version will not be a profitable one…if out of all PC users in the world you only get 100,000 members for the PC version….how few will you get for the MAC…IMO the C++ runner is a silly distraction to yoyo, when there more important things to be done with the product they have….There was even talk of a Linux version, and using both C++ and linux at home and work I can tell you that people who have got to grips with Linux will be far more IT developed than to consider GM as a viable programming option..

    But hey, time will tell..

    Pleased to see you come back and post again!

  4. Ivor Biggun,

    Your comments are quite good and well based, but there are several things which you forget. First, GM is especially for youngsters, not professionists, and thus, putting a competition will light up the youngsters’ day while a professionist may see it as not usefull (esp. at this time).
    You ask what could GM offer better? As a start, you could create your own simple games as you might have wanted: a red packman seem too evil? Make it blue.
    Snes and other emulators, can’t do so, and if you implied that GM should be used in other platforms in this way, then it will not happen, you perfectly know GM’s weakness as an interpreted language.
    What they see in other platforms is the future. First, they can’t make GM anyway better for Windows, there are a couple of bugs, but most aren’t even directly related to it.
    There are several of your comments that I don’t understand. I don’t see huge problems with their site. It’s a quite complex site so there could be some small problems which must be addressed sepately. Seeing other “pro” sites such as Youtube, YYG’s is much better. Here’s a fair comparison; I used to work on an HTML parser, which worked on all sites except Youtube’s. I’ve checked their HTML at the time, and found it horrendous. I couldn’t understand a thing, and that’s quite a problem considering that at that time I had already helped in the making of 3 sites.

    Personally, I and many other GM users prefer an enclosed community.

    Kind regards,

    PS nice talking to you too.

  5. Hi!

    I dont like statistics but for a second Ill take as fact the “4-7% of the computers nowadays use OSX”…Think on how many PC users there are…now look at the YYG site and lets say the membership is 100,000 people…that a very small percentage of users…With OSX the amount of members from Macs is going to be even smaller…

    I said above I didnt want to bash GM, but there is some hard facts which any GM user needs to realise…Go do a google search for freeware games…The popular titles that everyone is downloading are not made with GM and are streets ahead of anything GM can create..Forgetting for a minute the limitations of a GM creation, just look at the filesizes of its creations…Take crime life or one of those fps’s made with GM…they are not even up to the standard of Duke Nukem and thats years old and available for a free download…why would a game player need to go to yoyo?

    I am affraid the majority of yoyo games players are the GM users aswell. This is because a/they like to see what other people can do, and either aspire to that or b/get inspiration for their own works from others ideas…

    If yoyo was a gameplayers paradise it would recieve alot more hits than it does…Nowadays with the quality of software produced for free, emulators playing snes and other console roms, what does GM offer that hasnt already been done a 1000 times before and usually better…?

    GM is a fantastic tool and a fantastic community (I have stayed longer than I intended in the community) but you have to be realistic…games made with GM, by the sheer nature of how the package works, are going to look and play dated and if you want to make the games that the majority of players want to play, your gonna have to switch to a more traditional programming language…

  6. About the mac conversion: when they’ve got it running in mac they have got more potential visitors for their site. I’ve looked for some statistics, and found that 4-7% of the computers nowadays use OSX, that could be a nice improvement of visitors. Also, as it’s a website, everybody expect their machine can run it. Yyg could get a bad image if people are complaining when they can’t play the games. Though why they’re converting the complete editor, I don’t really know.

    About the competition: Ivor, imo there’s a 3rd option: more people will be attracted to the site to play games. When they’re there and find good games, they’ll browse further, playing other games etc. With all those visits yyg can get money from the ads on all those pages…

  7. Christian,

    I hope the previous posts did not come across the wrong way..I wont bash GM because I think it gives the oportunity to many people who otherwise wouldnt be able to write software…but if as you say YYG is strugling and unfocused by having too many members, then they should definately sort the site out instead of messing around with competitions and other distractions. I have worked in the programming industry for over 10 years, and I have never seen this type of business strategy employed…it seems to make no sense…I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the users who use and love GM.

    You are correct in that the porn issue could happen in any community/website…its one of the disadvantages of the web…However as a parent myself, on initial viewing of the site I would have deemed it a safe place to be for children…The function of refusing any user to embedd a picture should be a pretty simple one to impliment…

    When I say unfocused I meant that why are then not putting all their effort into the current PC version instead of trying to put a software onto another operating system…

    The fact that not one person anywhere I have been has turned around and said something like “Ive been a Mac owner for years and Im abolsolutly desperate for GM on my machine” really IMO should have been a sign that at the moment there is no real demand for another OS to be considered for GM…

    If yoyo is expecting “institutions” and by this I expect they mean schools, to help fund this 5m investment..the first thing they need to do is sort out their website, so at least they look as if they are a suitable product to be used in institutions…

    Maybe instead of £1000 compo’s they could use the money towards hiring a pro and sort the site out?

    If I could mention aswell that Yoyo games seems to be blissfully unaware of the breaches of copyright on its site….are you telling me that an institution with 5m on the hip would feel confident in YYG looking at the site?

    Just an idea….

    Nice talking to ya Christian…

  8. Ivor Biggun – No I wasn’t so that’s a good point on your side, still such a thing could have been done on any community couldn’t it?

    Trying to run a business anything simpler but more difficult if anything else.
    There is a valid reason why YYG seem unfocused, it’s mainly because of all the members. First, I’d like to point out that instead of Tuntis’ bad view of YGG’s forum, it was meant to be the new GMC, but they soon found several problems in trying to migrate (such as the huge number of usefull topics in the GMC). InstantPlay was an initial project of Mark’s and the C++ conversion is something which even I am starting to see advantages in. (Notice that I had very valid reasons to why they shouldn’t).
    As to the blog, people make it an interesting debate, eventhough a nice environment make things easier.
    All for the best,

  9. Phil,

    Fair points, Im not a GM user but from an “outsiders” point of view 64d is the better site….

    Christian Sciberras,

    You obviously were not present when a member posted hardcore pornography onto the forums (i.e pictures) Im not going to mention the users name.. 64d is not a site marketed at children..YYG is…that is the problem…

    You said “The guys at 64D don’t have anything to do else then working on that site,” – maybe so (although Id expect teenagers to be at college or work), but these guys are not trying to run a business, YYG is.

    You said “Don’t forget that the guys working at YGG has several projects at hand” – and thats what makes YYG seem so I said in my previous post, why not get what they already have improved before branching out into other areas….wouldnt it be better to cater for the current customers?

    btw Phil, Im beginning to find this is the blog to come to for a reasoned and intelligent debate!!- Good blog!

  10. Ivor

    The GMC has been arround long before YoYo Games, although it has ‘restarted’ at least once.

    ’64d’ and ‘professional’ should never be used in the same sentence unless the phrases ‘complete lack of’ is placed between them. Although I agree the YYG website has a lot of shortcomings and therefore the company obviously must.

    I agree entirely on the Mac issue as well – I have no idea why this is one of YoYo Games’ priorities.

  11. @Ivor Biggun – I’ve never seen anything you mentioned on the YYG site, apart modified tutorials, which as far as I know, there’s ins’t any AI software that can detect that.
    Vulgar language is a trademark on 64D (sorry but it’s true) and pornography isn’t uncommon either. Maybe you switched the descriptions of the websites?
    The guys at 64D don’t have anything to do else then working on that site, and in my opinion, it doesn’t have anything “special” and isn’t that simple to use too. YYG’s site isn’t that special either, but at least it is on a very good standard.
    Don’t forget that the guys working at YGG has several projects at hand, including: enhacning GM, converting GM, Instant Play, and the website plus two communities.
    Now some bug head come complaining about the community not being the standard as a couple of people did on one single miserable website.
    There isn’t any fair comparison between the two.

  12. L4nt0m,

    You make some valid points and some rather un-informed ones.

    By offering £1000 do you really think yoyo will gain popularity? The average games player and any self respecting programmer will not be lured into GM by anything that you could create with it…GM is simply not up to producing something of merchantable quality. The reason for the competition in my opinion is twofold:

    1/ It will encourage existing users of GM who have not registered to register their software so they have more features and a better chance of winning..It will only need 100 users to register to make back the prize.

    2/ The current advertising, when associated with the Yoyo competition, which presumably is the most popular part of the site for yoyo users, will be charged more to advertise their product on any page relating to the GM compo…

    As far as Im aware the GMC (and having briefly looked at it see nothing wrong with) was around before YYG…and Im happy to be corrected on that…YYG comes under fire as it has many security holes & exploits, but worse than that young people who use it are exposed to vulgar language and hardcore pornography (not to mention breaches of copyright, malicious games , stolen games from other users , or tutorial examples modified for the 1000th time)….The YYG site is a disgrace…when a group of teenagers in their spare time can create 64digits which is far more professional…it puts YYG to shame and IMO says alot about the company…

    The MAC issue is a complete mystery to me…GM on the PC has a small enough market, but to put it onto the MAC for an even smaller one seems a complete waste of resources when they should be concentrating on getting their site and GM on the PC improved….How many mac users do you know? How many of them would be interested in GM? How many of those would register the software?

    Maybe instead of working on a C++ runner, they should have considered implimenting more features that the PAYING users have requested….

    You were correct with “..while they’re doing nothing wrong imo at all.” – agreed, they are here to make money…

  13. L4nt0m: I honestly don’t care about any competition or game made with Game Maker a lot. The thing is, when YYG acquired GM over a year ago, it was pretty much that they “took over”. They should have begun with fixing the GMC, which is still the better (and far by more professional) community. But instead, they set up some flawed website and run 2 competitions. All the uses I see for YYG’s own forum is 1) Rick Rolling, and 2) allowing people who spammed the site with hardcore pornography to come back with minimal trouble and resume their normal activities within the community.

    And that’s not all — there’s one moderator that cares, who’s barely on at all!

    I’m not exactly an “GM user”. I haven’t made any real game with it (with the exception of “tuntispong”, which was full of bugs and that I made for a little “trolling session” in the GMC): so why am I still here? Mainly because I liked arguing about the never-ending issue of copy protection, and because I am a part of GMKing (and MarkUp). And when YYG came around? I see a nice little community fall to a hole.

    [dear lord phil needs to install one of those ajax preview plugins, this tiny box isn’t doing it]

  14. @tuntis: wasting their money on competitions? You seriously don’t get the point of them: people (including me) will try to make better games when they’ve got something to win. If they get many good entries, the standard of the games on yyg goes up, and so yyg will gain more popularity.

    @Robin Monks: tell me what they’ve touched and ruined? The GMC’s getting better, you can now easily upload your games somewhere, your games get played more on, they’re rewriting gm to c++, making it mac-compatible..

    seriously, I’m getting kinda annoyed of guys like you constantly whining about everything yyg is doing, while they’re doing nothing wrong imo at all.

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